Can I Sell My Car Still on Finance

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• #101

Yes I hate dealing with car salespeople too. Spent 2 hours trying to negotiate the price, got no progress. Then I tried using a broker, bam, the first price they gave me was much lower, so I went with them.

• #102

Yes. And thanks to you I used Truecar and we got a 2017 CRV and we love it.completely painless.

Nice, congrats!

• #103

y'all do it to yourselves. there's already better ways to buy but most don't take advantage of it.

you do still need to go test drive the vehicles the traditional way though.

• #104

Just brought a car last week. Using Costco they got me a dealer to give me a price. That price is also lower than just emailing the dealer directly lol. Showed up in person, after looking at the car they took a few hundred off and I am signing paperwork. Didn't try to sell me any service and I got out in 2.5 hours

• #105

The golden rule with car sales - know why they operate as they do, and exploit them. Put yourself in the position of power.

Do it right and you'll come away with a deal. Do it wrong, and you end up posting threads on Era saying how awful it is :)

• #106

There's typically only about an 8-12% markup on new cars to begin with. That's a much lower profit margin than the vast majority of things you buy. Jewelry for example often has 100%+ markup with hardly and haggling at all. The haggling part is mostly customer driven due to the way perceptions have always been about slimy car salesman. The MSRP is actually a fair price that nobody is ever willing to pay because they think they're getting ripped off if they do.

• #107

Just brought a car last week. Using Costco they got me a dealer to give me a price. That price is also lower than just emailing the dealer directly lol. Showed up in person, after looking at the car they took a few hundred off and I am signing paperwork. Didn't try to sell me any service and I got out in 2.5 hours

I still think you can usually get a better deal if you're an expert negotiator. But Costco takes the hassle out so I'm fine with that. And once you go through Costco the dealer basically has to present you with that price (when I did it years ago, he kept saying "I wish you didn't go to costco, I could have done this or that", but I didn't care), or they risk losing Costco's business. Obviously they can still finance you and upsell you on stuff, though.

The problem I have with haggling, and this is in other areas too (like, for instance, DirecTV, salary negotiations, etc.) is that everyone isn't treated equally, and it preys on those who are the most gullible or ignorant or excited or whatever. Someone said it earlier, but you getting "over" on a salesman probably means he's getting over on a bunch of other people to make up for it (I realize dealer incentives and all that, but the salesman and the finance guys are basically out to screw you).

• #108

Lol the only reason why these dealers still exist is cause there is money made in them tbh.

That means many of you guys who get 100 or even 1000 off aren't getting the killer deal you guys think you negotiated.

It's usually the rare, one off guy who makes a killing and know the market for the car well - who strongly reduces profit margins off a car. If everyone was like that, these dealers wouldn't be a thing.

Therefore, it would be best for everyone if the manufacture sold directly, yeah the one killer negotiator will say bye bye to their massive savings - but most of us will spend less on cars

• #109

Has anyone used the navy federal car buying program? Its supposed to cut out all of this haggling but I'm understandably suspicious of such claims.

the "federalis" can usually get you one of the best rates. there will still be haggling on PRICE because typically, navy fed will say "ok you can spend this much" and the car you might get might be under it and u might want to make it even less or the car you might want might just be shy of your loan but u try to talk them down below it. but I mean, haggling will happen, and its your benefit that you can haggle it down. in that regard, dont tell them how much navy fed gave u, just tell them you're going with navy fed.

• #111

Lol the only reason why these dealers still exist is cause there is money made in them tbh.

That means many of you guys who get 100 or even 1000 off aren't getting the killer deal you guys think you negotiated.

It's usually the rare, one off guy who makes a killing and know the market for the car well - who strongly reduces profit margins off a car. If everyone was like that, these dealers wouldn't be a thing.

Therefore, it would be best for everyone if the manufacture sold directly, yeah the one killer negotiator will say bye bye to their massive savings - but most of us will spend less on cars

you're wrong. Dealers make money because of used cars and bonuses they get from new cars. Its more rare for a dealer to sell a new car and make a profit. If your dealership has a new car that the other dealership down the street has, same model etc....what is going to be the deciding factor? price. because of the internet, the customer can pit the dealers against each other.

yea, there are times that dealerships make a big rip on a new car, but its far and few between. The money is in used cars and trade ins. Ask any sales person or dealership, thats how they get their gross: on used cars....AND HOLDING Back on the trade. thats why before you trade in your vehicle, its good to goto carmax and see what they will give you. the kbb stuff is a good measuring tool but isnt close to what a dealership will give you. Carmax will give you a better idea of what a dealership is willing to give you. if the dealership gives u less than carmax, then walk.

• #112

y'all do it to yourselves. there's already better ways to buy but most don't take advantage of it.

you do still need to go test drive the vehicles the traditional way though.

Seriously.. we already been through all of this not that long ago.

Folks, what if I told you that TrueCar is not all that great a deal? They get paid a fee for every sale they help facilitate.. and guess where that comes from?? Your pocket!

• #113

There's typically only about an 8-12% markup on new cars to begin with.

You're about DOUBLE what it actually is.

• #114

Lol the only reason why these dealers still exist is cause there is money made in them tbh.

That means many of you guys who get 100 or even 1000 off aren't getting the killer deal you guys think you negotiated.

It's usually the rare, one off guy who makes a killing and know the market for the car well - who strongly reduces profit margins off a car. If everyone was like that, these dealers wouldn't be a thing.

Therefore, it would be best for everyone if the manufacture sold directly, yeah the one killer negotiator will say bye bye to their massive savings - but most of us will spend less on cars

The one time we got a great deal was just by accident. We just happened to be shopping late in December and they knocked a whole bunch off the price and included extras for free. It was only later listening to that TAL podcast that I realized we had just happened to be buying at the exact right time. Of course we probably didn't get the 'best' deal by far, the dealership can always get profit from the financing, trade-in etc, but we got a better deal than we would have normally.

• #115

you're wrong. Dealers make money because of used cars and bonuses they get from new cars. Its more rare for a dealer to sell a new car and make a profit. If your dealership has a new car that the other dealership down the street has, same model etc....what is going to be the deciding factor? price. because of the internet, the customer can pit the dealers against each other.

yea, there are times that dealerships make a big rip on a new car, but its far and few between. The money is in used cars and trade ins. Ask any sales person or dealership, thats how they get their gross: on used cars....AND HOLDING Back on the trade. thats why before you trade in your vehicle, its good to goto carmax and see what they will give you. the kbb stuff is a good measuring tool but isnt close to what a dealership will give you. Carmax will give you a better idea of what a dealership is willing to give you. if the dealership gives u less than carmax, then walk.

Oh I know used cars are marked up and what not, that doesn't surprise me at all.

But are you serious about the new car profits? That they rarely make a profit? Or they rarely make a profit off the car itself, not necessarily overall at the end of the sale (cause financing and dealer services)

• #116

Has anyone used the navy federal car buying program? Its supposed to cut out all of this haggling but I'm understandably suspicious of such claims.

I've sold a few clients through Navy Fed and USAA.

It's easy for both sides. The clients are already approved for financing, and (at least with my dealer) the used inventory is 1 price. Meaning no haggling.
Our new inventory is stupidly priced as well, so it may as well be 1 price.

Irritates our finance guys, but they don't pay my bills. The clients do. So as long as they are happy and take delivery, all is good by me.

But are you serious about the new car profits? That they rarely make a profit? Or they rarely make a profit off the car itself, not necessarily overall at the end of the sale (cause financing and dealer services)

He's %100 right. There is very little profit made in new cars. It's a means to an end.
The new product is the gateway to getting used inventory that we can make a little money on.

Your biggest profit centers in any dealership is SERVICE first (by a HUGE margin) and then FINANCE... it's NEVER sales.

• #117

the "federalis" can usually get you one of the best rates. there will still be haggling on PRICE because typically, navy fed will say "ok you can spend this much" and the car you might get might be under it and u might want to make it even less or the car you might want might just be shy of your loan but u try to talk them down below it. but I mean, haggling will happen, and its your benefit that you can haggle it down. in that regard, dont tell them how much navy fed gave u, just tell them you're going with navy fed.

Good to know. Thanks!

• #118

You're about DOUBLE what it actually is.

It wouldn't surprise me since I haven't sold cars in about 20 years. When I sold Nissans it was 9% as a rule but it was dependent on the car. The 300z had the highest margin which was still only something like 11%.

• #119

Ask for offers via email, don't give your phone number. Once you've got the best price, go and sign the papers.

I remember watching this at the time and being wtf, now it's so clear.

• #120

It wouldn't surprise me since I haven't sold cars in about 20 years. When I sold Nissans it was 9% as a rule but it was dependent on the car. The 300z had the highest margin which was still only something like 11%.

Oh yeah, it's greatly changed in the last 10 years... let alone 20.

• #121

But are you serious about the new car profits?

Manufacturers and dealers have a roundabout scheme where the manufacturer inflates the invoice (and MSRP) but gives dealerships kickbacks (as "bonuses"). So salespeople can claim they're selling the car at cost or even at a loss, but they're really making quite a bit on each sale overall (because of the after-sale kickback). Obviously the kickbacks should be included as a discount to the actual cost of the car from an outsider's perspective.

• #122

Manufacturers and dealers have a roundabout scheme where the manufacturer inflates the invoice (and MSRP) but gives dealerships kickbacks (as "bonuses"). So salespeople can claim they're selling the car at cost or even at a loss, but they're really making quite a bit on each sale overall (because of the after-sale kickback). Obviously the kickbacks should be included as a discount to the actual cost of the car from an outsider's perspective.

He's %100 right. There is very little profit made in new cars. It's a means to an end.
The new product is the gateway to getting used inventory that we can make a little money on.

Your biggest profit centers in any dealership is SERVICE first (by a HUGE margin) and then FINANCE... it's NEVER sales.

That's quite interesting, I assumed there was a good ~10% or so profit on a new car for the dealership. Thanks for the info btw
The used car/service/finance stuff doesn't surprise me as it only seemed natural to have a sort of vertical integration with the cars lol

• #123

Carvana - that's where I just got my car from 6 months ago. They are hassle-free and even their prices were better than what I found at dealerships in my area. Just check the Carfax report they provide and avoid rentals.

• #124

Pick car you want.
Determine what price you want to pay.
Email every dealership within however many miles you choose. Make sure they see you've emailed everyone else.
Watch them fight it out in your inbox.
Go in to dealership that wins and sign papers.
The End.

This is exactly what I did when I got my car a year ago. The finance guy was getting on my nerves trying to get me to buy extra insurance/warranties but other than that it was a smooth experience.

• #125

Manufacturers and dealers have a roundabout scheme where the manufacturer inflates the invoice (and MSRP) but gives dealerships kickbacks (as "bonuses"). So salespeople can claim they're selling the car at cost or even at a loss, but they're really making quite a bit on each sale overall (because of the after-sale kickback). Obviously the kickbacks should be included as a discount to the actual cost of the car from an outsider's perspective.

This is soooooo far from the truth. I covered this in the last thread.

• #126

This is soooooo far from the truth. I covered this in the last thread.

Yea idk what hes talking about.

And yes, a dealership's biggest source of revenue is from the Service department which alot of people dont know. So if someone is outside of a dealership's PMI or PML(primary market indicator or primary market location? Cant remember the exact acronym) they wont take a loss on a car to sell it to that person when they normally would for someone in their vicinity.

I mean typically they dont. I remember once my sales manager did cause the customer was "just outside" of the area and the GM called him on speaker and was cussing him out for approving that and they argued for like 10 minutes in the sales tower.

• #127

Next car I buy won't require a bunch of haggling and negotiating? Or test drives and stuff. Just gonna buy and have it shipped to me ready to roll. Gonna have my money already in hand as well, which gives me full control.

• #128

it's not that hard to deal with them

Do some research on at least two cars you could go for and like about equally. See the fair purchase price for the version of the car you want that they tend to sale at every nearby dealer at Kelley's Blue book website.

Go to one dealership. Test it out. Discuss price. Discuss financing. See how low they're willing to go before you walk away. Go to the other dealership. Do the same. Say how much the other place is willing to let you purchase their vehicle, see if they're willing to give you a better deal. Go to the other place. Do the same. Rinse and repeat until you get the best deal you can get within that fair purchase price range with good financing.

You have to be willing to walk away, and having another car you can go for just as easily is the best way.

• #129

I'm in the process myself. And yes, it's awful.

Although yesterday we went to a dealership where the salesperson was so comically bad, it makes me want to buy a car from him. He was the least "salesly" salesman I've ever encountered.

That's sweet of you...but please make sure he's the one who's going to get the sale.

• #130

My family keeps hassling me for putting a down payment on a 2017 honda. Was that a mistake?

• #131

My family keeps hassling me for putting a down payment on a 2017 honda. Was that a mistake?

No

Its usually good to pay your tax tags and fees as a down payment, cause why pay interest on those things?

• #132

I was in the market for a car last year and just had this horrible experience at a dealership. As a part of their negotiating tactic, they took my credit card (???) and essentially held it hostage as we negotiated. It took hours, we were getting close to a mutually agreed upon price, but the longer I sat there the less interested I was in the car. I told them I needed to go, and all of a sudden the guy is being a complete asshole to me about wasting his time and how reasonable he was being about the price. I had to threaten to call the cops to get my credit card back, never setting foot in that place again.

Even when I did end up buying my car (different place), the salesman and his manager were just constantly throwing numbers at me, I think trying to confuse me during negotiating? Half of it was verbal, with some number writing on paper. Fortunately I had plenty of time as I took the day off and used my laptop to document everything easily in Excel vs the paper writing and verbal back and forth. I ended up getting the car I wanted at a reasonable price but my god what a very uncomfortable experience.

I wish there was just a reasonable sticker price for these things with no haggling, it's such an nauseating experience for me as a very passive, non-confrontational person. I've only had two cars in my 15 years of driving, partially because I just can't stand the idea of buying a new one.

• #133

truecar seems to be a dealer lead service. completely turned me off the entire site when I tried to use it.

• #134

Seriously.

Why hasn't anyone stepped in and disrupted the out-dated, excruciating dealer model of sales?

I HATE dealing with sales people, I always feel like I'm getting fucked somehow. Not to mention if you even act slightly interested, you're going to get 600 texts, voicemails, and phone calls non-stop. Then once they pressure you into buying, you get to be locked into a tiny room with a finance dipshit who tries to sell you on undercoat protection, extended warranties, and all sorts of crap you don't need.

Its god damn 2019. Why can't I go to a neutral automall, test drive, take my time, then go home, build/price/order online and be done with it? Dealerships are (mostly) staffed by high school educated bafoons trying to fuck you over as best they can for a fat comission.

Don't buy new.

Use Carmax.

• #135

Just had a private buy and no issues at all.

• #136

it's not that hard to deal with them

Do some research on at least two cars you could go for and like about equally. See the fair purchase price for the version of the car you want that they tend to sale at every nearby dealer at Kelley's Blue book website.

Go to one dealership. Test it out. Discuss price. Discuss financing. See how low they're willing to go before you walk away. Go to the other dealership. Do the same. Say how much the other place is willing to let you purchase their vehicle, see if they're willing to give you a better deal. Go to the other place. Do the same. Rinse and repeat until you get the best deal you can get within that fair purchase price range with good financing.

You have to be willing to walk away, and having another car you can go for just as easily is the best way.

You've described exactly what people hate about it.

• #137

you're wrong. Dealers make money because of used cars and bonuses they get from new cars. Its more rare for a dealer to sell a new car and make a profit. If your dealership has a new car that the other dealership down the street has, same model etc....what is going to be the deciding factor? price. because of the internet, the customer can pit the dealers against each other.

yea, there are times that dealerships make a big rip on a new car, but its far and few between. The money is in used cars and trade ins. Ask any sales person or dealership, thats how they get their gross: on used cars....AND HOLDING Back on the trade. thats why before you trade in your vehicle, its good to goto carmax and see what they will give you. the kbb stuff is a good measuring tool but isnt close to what a dealership will give you. Carmax will give you a better idea of what a dealership is willing to give you. if the dealership gives u less than carmax, then walk.

From what I told it's the other way around. There's less to be made on sales of used cars and dealers make more of their money from the finance they set up.

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks

• #138

Don't give out your contact details unless you really have to. Personally I enjoy the experience, and love test driving different cars, especially performance vehicles. It's only as stress or high pressure as you yourself allow it to be. Maintain confidence and control and it can actually be rewarding.

• #139

You've described exactly what people hate about it.

people hate it when they try to complicate it by not doing a little bit of research. Would it be simpler if cars had a sticker price that would never go higher or lower? Sure. But it's not like you have to be the master of persuasion. If you go with literal data to back up a range you know for a fact is a fair purchase price, get within that range and you arent really being fucked over.

• #140

This is soooooo far from the truth. I covered this in the last thread.

Yes, I recall you and the real estate guy arguing that having rent-seeking middlemen leech money from what would otherwise be direct transactions was actually good for customers.

It may be that competition among organized crime families keeps the racketeering and extortion prices low, but having no organized crime at all would be significantly better.

• #141

From what I told it's the other way around. There's less to be made on sales of used cars and dealers make more of their money from the finance they set up.

Ok so one more time...

New cars: VERY little, and in many cases no, profit
It's a means to an end to secure business for other areas. The manufacturers MIGHT offer a volume bonus to the dealers, but you have to sell high volumes to do so. Currently new car sales are flat. Way down from years past.

Used cars: more profitable. Still, not many thousands like some of you think. A reputable dealer will sink a ton of money into a car to make it right for sale.

The profit centers that generate the most money are service and then finance. In that order.

Service, if its a good department, will generate more than half your businesses profit.

Finance will make money on points on rate, or flats from the banks. The banks pay dealerships to help secure business. There are dealer to lender agreements as well that make it illegal for a bank to offer a better rate to an individual than they would a dealer. Example, you get preapproved for a loan through Chase. By contract, they have to offer the same or in most cases BETTER rate than what you get. Its due to volume mostly.

Warrantys can be profitable, just like any product. I wont say they are worthless. Just a matter of finding the right one for your needs.
I've personally had my rear covered by one that I bought. In one time that I used it I far exceeded the cost of the warranty I bought.

If you are financing anything, get gap insurance. I dont care if its with the dealer or your own insurance. You total your new car, your insurance only covers the current book values. They couldnt care less about what you owe. A solid gap coverage is less than 700-900 and is for the life of the loan.

Most people I run into have 3-8000 of negative equity in the car they drive. If they were to wreck it, the insuramce company comes after them for the difference.

• #142

Is there someone here who has car-buying experience in the US and "Europe"?
I've read this complaint about buying cars in America countless times, but I just don't get it. Especially where the awfulness comes in.

Can I Sell My Car Still on Finance

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-is-buying-a-car-still-awful-in-2019.113765/page-3

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